Gennaro and staff discuss EMS retention, training costs, and pay parity

All right.

Thank you for being here.

I wanted to return to the question about EMS retention and the career pipeline there.

One of the challenges you've already alluded to is significant workforce turnover and difficulties with both recruitment and retention for EMS.

What percent of EMS are leaving each year and what percent of those leaving are heading to the FDM or to FIRE?

Yes.

So the attrition rate last year was about 10.9%.

And the annualized attrition rate for this year is about 14.3%.

That's much higher than it would be in a year in which there weren't firefighter promos.

So in years without firefighter promos, the attrition rate is closer to 7% or 8%.

Okay, so you roughly what percent would you say is converting to FDNY roles?

Seven?

Converting to FDNY to firefighter?

During a promotion cycle, which is multiple classes, they're all coming from a promo list so they go consecutively.

We will shift about 25% of the EMS workforce from EMS into fire.

And what percent of the incoming firefighter academy class then would be from EMT or EMS?

It'll be a promotion class for the most part.

So that entire group of people who left EMS will end up being the probationary class in the fire academy.

And is the training different or the same?

For those two roles?

Well, there are different focuses, right?

So, you know, we're the...

People coming from EMS have been certified as EMTs or paramedics, and they're required to recertify their EMT and paramedics every four years in order to maintain their positions.

Once they go into the fire academy, then they're taught firematics, and they're taught firefighting, you know,

curriculum.

You can talk a little bit more about what you're teaching them, but it is specific to the job that they're doing.

But when it comes to an operational perspective, once they've moved over from EMS to fire, outside of the CFR engine,

They are no longer doing EMT level or paramedic level work.

They're doing firefighting work, which is the stuff that they learned in the fire academy.

The current PROVY class that we have in the fire academy is all EMS promotions.

Later in the year, we'll hire another class that

60 to 70% will be EMS promotions.

And then what they learn in the fire academy, whether you came from EMS or not, the curriculum is the same, and it's all about firefighting operations that EMS does not currently have and do.

And just so we're clear, once those folks become firefighters, they're no longer working on an ambulance in any way.

So they're not able to go across.

Cross from fire to EMS.

So asking both questions together, one is have you considered if it'd be more cost effective to close that promotional pathway if the training is different?

And then the other is what role EMS compensation and increasing that compensation plays and if that would be more cost effective than continuously investing in recruiting and

trying to retrain or train new people if you're cycling out 10 to 14 percent.

Right, so there has been lots of discussion about the promotion pathway from EMS to fire because it does take such a large chunk of EMS at one

one date range and put them into another area of the department.

However, because of that promotion process, people come to EMS.

So in order to be eligible for a promotion, you have to work at EMS for four years.

So what generally happens is somebody who wants to be a firefighter will come in through EMS, spend their four years at EMS, and then look to promote into fire.

So if I were to close that promotion process, that...

That segment of people that come to EMS to become firefighters.

We know law

longer have a reason to come to EMS to become firefighters.

So without there being some significant compensation so that if you were an EMT or a paramedic, you can make the choice as to whether you want to stay in EMS or become a firefighter.

That's the pay parity part, right?

If the money was in place so that people didn't have to leave EMS to go to fire to make more money,

then the expectation is those people would stay in EMS and we would have to train far fewer people

because right now we're training constantly and it's pretty costly to continue to train, to move people from one area of the department to the other area of the department.

And just to close out, I know I'm out of time, but do you have an estimate of what those costs are on recruiting and training?

Yeah, so for EMT, it costs $41,000 to train a coming in the door, a new employee, EMT.

For a paramedic, it costs $130,000.

And we train our EMTs to be paramedics.

So there are people that work for us who are being upgraded to paramedic.

That's $130,000.

For refresher training, which is what happens every four years,

For an EMT, it's $6,300.

And for a medic, it's $9,000.

So...

Essentially, we would save money if we were able to keep people longer than having to keep bringing them in at the entry level.

Thank you.

Thank you.