CM Brewer on street mental health and addiction treatment
Brewer raises concerns about people with mental illness on the streets. Katz argues most upsetting behavior stems from drug addiction, not mental illness per se, and advocates for mandatory substance treatment after repeated low-level arrests as an alternative to Rikers or leaving people on the street.
Mental health.
So my office is swamped with people who see people and are experiencing, I guess, abuse from people who are mentally ill on the street.
And so it's the same story.
It's nothing new.
But do you think the city has some remedies for this or is it just the same?
Oh, we just have to deal with it.
It does seem to be increasing, obviously to the credit of Jessica Tisch, the numbers are down in terms of violent acts, but mental illness seems to be up.
I've seen it, I know I got 10 calls today even, just, you know,
What do you suggest?
Okay, well, this is Mitch's doctor.
I know, I like Mitch's doctor.
So I believe that a lot of the people that you're getting calls about are heavily addicted.
I believe that some portion is mental illness.
But people with mental illness are generally not violent.
They are generally the victims.
They are not the perpetrators.
There is the rare person whose psychosis says, the devil says I need to hurt you.
But that is by far the minority.
The people with schizophrenia typically become withdrawn.
They are not the people who are upsetting to people.
I believe that the vast majority of people who are upsetting are using drugs.
They are addicted to the drugs.
They may also have a mental illness.
Right, I understand.
But it's the drug use that is affecting their behavior.
And I personally, Mitch, the doctor, thinks that they need treatment.
And that there needs to be, I don't think sending them to Rikers is going to help them.
I think that
That's going to make things worse.
But I think leaving them on the street is also not helping them.
And I think that we, that judges in our current system, lack alternatives.
True.
So that it's either do you release the person who has just done this crime, but maybe it was not a horrible crime.
Do you send them to Rikers?
I agree, don't send them to Rikers, they'll only learn worse behavior.
But on the other hand, I also don't, someone has multiple incidents of these kinds of crimes.
They're cycling.
Good things are not going to happen to them.
Correct.
Bad things are going to happen to them.
And to the people in the neighborhood.
And why can't we as a society say, you know, this is the third time you have been arrested, the first time you were stealing potato chips, the second time you pushed somebody, you know,
clearly drug use is hurting you and something bad is going to happen.
And therefore, we are saying, you, as a judge, you got to go to this substance treatment program.
And ideally, you go voluntarily, but if you don't go, you got to go.
But that's how I view it.
The law is not consistent with that.
The law says, as you know well, that you can only be held against your will if you are in imminent danger of hurting yourself or someone else.
And it doesn't address how addiction kills people's lives and all the people around.
But do you feel there are enough programs, because my friends who are judges feel there aren't necessarily the right program for that person to be able to deal with his or her addiction.
Do you think that there are enough places?
I think that if we could all agree that some people are not going to go voluntarily.
Right.
But that there should be not a first strike, but like the third time you were brought before a judge that you have to go, that that would be a positive step forward.
And we do that with mental illness.
So why can't we say on the third time you're arrested for some, again, not a huge, you know, these kind of stealing things, pushing people, getting into a fight.
Why can't we say, you know, this is not turning out well for you.
We as a society feel you're not following through on the societal contract and you are going to this program.
Will it work all the time?
No, but at least...
We're trying, right?
I think the frustration that you've expressed to me is the same as what my friends say is, well, but you can't even call the police because the police say there's nothing they can do about it.
My daughter rides the subway home from her supermarket job, and she all the time talks about how frightened she feels as a short Asian girl in the subway, and she feels intimidated, right?
And I hate that.
Okay.
This is a good offline discussion to continue.
Thank you, Dr.
Katz.
Thank you.
Okay, we have Council Members Wong, Aldebal, and Ressler.