Restler and Bonsignore debate fifth firefighter vs. EMS pay priority

Thanks so much.

So let's try again.

Fresh take, take two.

Approximately how much would a fifth firefighter cost if we were to be implemented citywide?

So the city council has released an estimated number of 92 million for 86 companies.

That's about half of the companies.

It would be 173 if you were to expand it citywide.

And you think those estimates were roughly accurate based on your assessment?

For order of magnitude purposes.

So roughly we're talking about $180 million to go citywide.

Fifth firefighter.

That would be the city council estimate.

And no independent perspective from the fire department?

You think that that's roughly broad strokes?

That seems like a reasonable estimate.

I think order of magnitude, that's about right.

I mean, we're in conversation with OMB about the estimate.

We have some differences and we're working.

You know, I've really appreciated, and I don't mean to cut you off.

You're one of the best finance directors at any agency in the city, so I know you know the answers to all these questions, and I will push because there are some folks that could sit up on this panel and wouldn't be able to answer questions.

You are not one of them, so I appreciate you coming back to us.

And I really appreciate, Commissioner, you.

coming in with a very forceful position on supporting EMS workers.

Any orders of magnitude?

There have been a range of approaches on pay equity.

I know that it's subject to negotiations, but can you speak to the range of costs that have been discussed to improve compensation for EMS?

So this is not speaking to the range, but I know that we have deferred to OLR on what it would cost, maybe just to put some context around what the scale is.

The average EMT salary, looking at base salary and additions to gross, but not including overtime, is $57,494.

The average firefighter salary, base salary, additions to gross, no overtime, is $109,930.

So it's almost double.

It's 91% higher.

And so if we were to double the salary of every EMS worker, which I don't think is the likely outcome, but something along those, how much would that cost us?

Do you have a broad sense of, I mean, I've seen estimates that have ranged that EMS is advocating, EMTs are advocating for increases in wages from $80 million up to $200 million or even more, potentially over a multi-year period.

Comparable number, I mean, numbers that are in a similar ballpark to what we could be talking about for a fifth firefighter.

Considering how dire the situation is with EMT worker retention in a world of limited resources, I really do hope that we focus on fixing.

this crisis that we have at EMT, the fact that after five years an EMT can't make more than $59,000 is disgraceful.

And I never, the starting salary in my office is north of that.

And frankly, these are kids coming out of college who are great and bright and amazing, and I'm lucky to have them.

Person who's spent five years saving lives across the city of New York deserves more and deserves better.

So I really, and then coming back, if we were to add a fifth firefighter at a cost of approximately $180 million citywide, I'll ask Commissioner or Chief, if you were handed

a bucket of $180 million in cash and we're told that you could do anything in your power to reduce fire fatalities in the city of New York.

Is hiring a fifth firefighter at the top of your list, do you think that would have the greatest impact?

And that's what we're looking at.

We're trying to figure out what would have the greatest impact.

It would have an impact.

I don't know if that would be the greatest impact in every company around the city.

I imagine that we could look at a lot.

If I had that bucket of money, right, certainly EMS pay would be the top of the list.

I certainly appreciate that, too.

I share that priority.

we're on the same page.

For the narrower question of how do we address what we have as a crisis of fires in the Bronx and situations that need to be resolved, fire prevention investments,

investments to address the most concerning housing stock, there are a variety of different targeted ways that we could probably

smartly spend a whole lot less resources that could have a bigger impact in reducing fatalities from fire than a fifth firefighter and an extraordinary cost of $180 million citywide.

Is that fair?

I think that's fair.

So recognizing that and also recognizing that you said that the fifth firefighter, the thing where they have the greatest impact is getting the hose out and getting water out.

Fire stock in the Bronx, six, seven-story buildings.

Is that the height of buildings that we need to get that fifth firefighter in place?

Are those the areas that you would prioritize it having the greatest impact?

As a general statement, yes.

It's a longer hose line stretch, 75 feet, 70, 75 feet tall is the height of a building.

Above that, you need a standpipe in it, which is different from stretching off the apparatus.

And then just to make sure I got this right on the record, you said that the response times in Queens and Staten Island are slower than in the Bronx?

You had five minutes and ten seconds in Queens and five minutes and two seconds, five minutes and ten seconds in Queens, five minutes and five seconds in Queens, five minutes and two seconds in Staten Island.

Did I have those right?

The Bronx was ranked third in terms of response time citywide.

So Bronx was 4 minutes, 58 seconds.

Queens was five minutes, two seconds.

Staten Island, five minutes, five seconds.

Okay, so all about the same.

And that's year-to-date average response time to structural fires.

Okay.

I really appreciate the responses.

I'm sorry to get frustrated earlier.

I just think in a world where we have limited resources, we want to invest them in the places they're going to make the greatest difference in saving lives.

And we do have a crisis in the Bronx that I'm very committed to advocating for with my colleagues.

I have seen Councilmember Pierina Sanchez in particular out on site with the men and women of the FDNY just in dire situations.

We do need to do more up there.

I just want to make sure we're spending our money smartly, and that's an extraordinary expense that we don't have data to back up the difference that it would make.

And so I hope we can be smart about how we prioritize things from here.

Thank you.