Chair Schulman on water ecologist vacancies during cluster and OMB funding

So I have a bunch of questions, but I'm just going to go once to quick round for my colleagues because I can stay here.

So Councilmember Epstein.

Thank you.

Can I just, so I have a better understanding about, so with Legionnaires, obviously the towers are affected, but the plumbing system is impacted too, right?

The virus isn't just staying in the tower, it's going through the plumbing infrastructure, right?

The water infrastructure, going to the hoses, going to the faucets, going to the drains, right?

The bacteria is in the potable water system, which can be the plumbing in those buildings.

Right.

And so when you're testing, are you testing just the tower or are you testing the system too?

So these are two separate types of investigations.

What we've been talking about so far has been what you've just referenced, which is us testing the cooling tower.

Right.

What's going on at Haven Plaza, as you know, is a separate and distinct type of investigation.

So you're testing the plumbing system as well?

So it's actually only the plumbing system.

And let me hand it to Deputy Commissioner Prince to explain a little more.

I want to make sure I'm understanding your question.

I just want to make sure that when we're testing, right, and sometimes we find the bacteria.

Present in the towers.

We also

Then what are we doing about making sure the plumbing, the system itself, when the water's coming to the faucet, is being tested as well?

So these are completely different.

Right.

And we are directed either to the cooling tower or to a building's internal plumbing system based on the information that is coming from our epidemiologists.

Right.

So as you've heard, there are a few hundred cases every year of Legionnaire's disease.

The bacteria are everywhere.

People are exposed all the time.

Right.

And there are a few hundred cases every year.

Right.

Most of those cases we consider sporadic.

The case investigators are following up.

They don't know where the exposure is coming from.

Right.

When they're seeing patterns in space and time.

Yes.

That's telling us that that bacteria may be growing in the built environment.

And the kind of space and time pattern is what tells us which built environment is at risk.

When we are seeing, as we saw on the Upper East Side, many cases in a short period of time, here our astute epidemiologists identified it.

Very early, they could see what was coming even before, as you heard Dr.

Howard say, our automated systems picked up on it.

The typical community cluster pattern is many cases in a short period of time in a neighborhood.

That tells us that there is a cooling tower or could be multiple cooling towers where the bacteria is growing.

It enters.

the environment as mist and spreads all over that neighborhood.

Right.

We're not testing the potable water system because we know that that's coming from cooling towers.

If it's in the tower and spreading it, you're saying it's not spreading through the water system.

Exactly.

And that's why we're not...

That's why there's no recommendation about showering.

It's never about drinking water.

Right.

It's completely different.

But when you're testing the tower and you find the bacteria in a building, like you mentioned Haven Plaza, then you're testing the water system.

To the water's coming out of the faucet.

Yes, and let me return to the pattern, because we're seeing a very different kind of pattern when the clues are telling us to look at that potable water system.

The pattern that Dr.

Howard's team is observing there is two cases as opposed to many.

Over a 12-month period, as opposed to very quickly, with a shared hot water system, as opposed to a neighborhood.

And so there that's telling us that what we suspect is the built environment that is at risk is that internal plumbing system.

Right.

That's where the sampling happens.

That's the community at risk.

And that's when we start talking about reducing risk if you are in a risk group by not taking a shower.

Never about drinking water because this is about inhalation.

Right.

Right, so I'm just saying when you're testing the water that's coming out of the faucet, I think your distinction you're making is a really important distinction, but to the

the public, right, it is really hard to understand.

And to the public, it is hard to communicate this information.

And so if you're testing a tower or testing water coming out of the faucet for the bacteria, people have to have information and then need to know when they need to get help and what the signs are of illness.

And I think what we're trying to say is I think

While you are experts in this and you've been trained in this, the public at large is not.

And English might not even be their first language.

So they need help and support.

And that's what we're trying to get.

I'm not saying you're not all working hard, but we're saying we're not getting that information out to people in a way that's helpful to provide them support when they're scared and not knowing what to do.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Councilmember Wong?

Thank you, Chair.

Yeah, go ahead.

Very quick.

I'll be really quick.

We've been here since 10 a.m., and I'm still, I did not hear from anybody in this panel.

What are the symptoms of Legionnaire's disease?

I believe I covered those in my earlier testimony, and I will reiterate them here today.

They're flu-like symptoms, things like cough, fever, shortness of breath.

These are the signs and symptoms of Legionnaire's disease.

And how would an individual distinguish that, oh, that's Legionnaires, I have to go see a doctor?

Or, oh, I should stay home in my bed and just rest a few days.

Where's the...

distinction?

So the distinction is embedded in the communications that we are giving, the targeted radio ads, the tabling events, the community presentations, the town halls, the press releases.

All of these are efforts, interventions to educate the public to not look past these symptoms because this is not potentially just a normal flu or a normal or a COVID.

This can be deadly, as we have seen.

And so that's why it's critically important to do the communications as we have.

Well, like back to my visit to the Met Museum, as someone who's been there, I should have been informed that, oh, we tested positive.

Please look for these symptoms.

And if you have these symptoms, go see a doctor.

I have not got these notices.

I do not know whether you've sent them out to buildings that are tested positive with legionnaires in the AC tower.

So that is a question I want to know.

Have you done these outreaches?

Or was it Office of Mass Engagement is doing that?

Or they knock on doors or attend residence meetings?

Is this something that you do?

Or is it like the Office of Mass Engagement did?

Thank you for that question.

We knocked on doors as part of our community health worker team.

I knocked on dozens of them myself there.

But to your broader question around the communications to the building owners, that's why our

our work with you all and the relationships that we have with you at City Council is so important.

We did eight elected briefings to have you all help us as well get the message out.

We did three town halls, two press conferences with the mayor, nine press releases to get the word to these building owners to share this message as well.

That's done by Department of Health and not the Office of Mass Engagement.

Is that right?

We did that outreach at the Department of Health.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Okay, thank you.

So I have some questions.

So on the speaker talked about and other members talked about the infield, the water ecology positions.

Yep.

Right.

So the data is showing that as of July 21st, that one third.

Of the positions remained unfilled.

So that was the issue that we've been trying to get to during the course of the hearing as to why they were still unfilled at that particular point in time when the outbreak was far along.

That was what we were asking, why they were unfilled at that point.

And then the question is,

Were they unfilled because you were still recruiting people, or were they unfilled because OMB wasn't releasing the funding for it?

I see.

We'll have to get back to you exactly on that data.

make sure that we align there.

I can tell you that at this moment of the 56 positions, 50 of them are filled.

There are six that are unfilled.

Understood.

But we're just going to the, in the heart of the cluster.

I can add that we've been working very closely with OMB and there are no, those issues are not in play.

Really, it is a challenging position to fill.

Yeah.

Okay.

Local, you know what, out of curiosity, do you know what the pay level is in New York City versus other cities?

Is it lower or higher?

Because there are other agencies where we have that issue.

Yeah, we can look into that and circle back.

Just out of curiosity.

Yeah, a comparison between the cities?

Yeah.

Yeah, we can look back and circle back to you.