Council Member Dinowitz presses Smith-Cruz on whether talking points are substantive

Thank you, Chair.

I also do want to associate myself with the remarks of both the public advocate and the minority leader that it is, I mean, disappointing at best that

the comms team who was invited is not in attendance, especially from a

administration that is supposed to be defined by transparency.

But I do want to ask about the instant messages.

You were discussing them as by nature transitory, brief messages.

I'm reading something from Doris, and I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly from 2024.

It says instant electronic messages, and it defines

substantive messages which document or relate to the decisions, actions, or policies of a city office or agency, and then it defines transitory messages which do not document or relate to the decisions, actions, or policies of an agency,

such as personal messages between coworkers and time-dependent communications,

purely logistical, such as arranging a time or place for a meeting or call.

That's correct?

That's still correct and accurate?

Thank you for that question.

It may be that you're citing the instant messaging policy of 2024 and there was a 2025 update, but the language is similar to the current 2025 update.

Okay, so you had said in the, or I think you had said in the testimony,

about a brief message is for the nature of instant messages.

And then according to the Columbia report, which first documented, it says via the encrypted messaging app signal, messages receive, members receive daily updates, talking points, and clips to use in their points.

Would you consider those to be

brief or transitory messages, or would you consider those to be substantive messages?

Thank you for that question.

I would say that Doris is not charged with monitoring.

I'm asking what you think.

You've created a policy.

I'm not asking you to monitor it.

I'm asking your opinion based on documents that you produce.

Thank you for that question.

So the way that records management works is that it's based on the function and it's not based on the format.

And so we really want to identify.

I'm not asking about the format.

I'm asking about what's in the message.

Would Doris consider daily updates, talking points, and clips to use in posts?

substantive, which documents or relate

to decisions, actions, or policies of a city officer or agency, or would you consider that to be personal messages between coworkers, time-dependent communication regarding purely logistical matters?

Thank you for the clarification of your question.

Sure.

I would say that we see those

points that you're, and you could list a whole list of things, right?

I could give you a calendar, I could give you, you know, press releases, all the things, and ultimately these would be duplicative to the actual object.

And so what we retain are the records themselves, and the communications about records are what would be transitory.