Caban asks panel about discrimination examples and CCHR outreach

Thank you all so, so much.

It's nice to see you all.

Before I ask my questions, I just want to say that I'm thankful and proud that we're here able to hear this legislation today.

And Alicia, I was moved by your really kind words because

I just, I owe a lot to you.

I think like my colleagues, we see our work, our public service work is rooted in part of being, you know, liberation work.

And it is our jobs, it is my job to be in community with all people who are in the fight for freedom, for dignity, for health, for safety.

there's a lot to learn and grow.

And for lots of different issues, I've had sort of like my rabbis, so to speak, you know, for sex work, it was Cecilia Gentile that brought me into that work.

Who was at that same protest with us, by the way, back in 2021.

That's right.

You know, for Palestinian liberation, it was Sumaya Wad and Linda Sarsour.

And for, you know, the work on behalf of intersex folks, it is you.

These are the people that have taught me not just to be allies in these liberation struggles, but to be co-conspirators.

So I owe you a lot.

So thank you.

And my question is for all of you, you can chime in however you'd like, but

can you tell us, you've spoken about it some, but if there are more examples that you'd like to give about the kinds of discrimination you have seen or experienced, please feel free to share them.

And in your view, what kind of action should the government take to prevent or address this kind of discrimination?

Specifically, you know, would additional outreach or education on CCR's part, CCHR's part be helpful?

And if so, what should that outreach look like?

Yeah, I mean, I think Liat's testimony was so powerful in terms of the discrimination based on perceived differences that has been mentioned multiple times.

But the reason I brought Kellen Lord into my conversation is I think health care discrimination.

And just healthcare inequity.

And even within like LGBTQI plus spaces, they like to tack the eye on, but without necessarily doing anything meaningful to include us.

And I don't mean just include us like with like a little rainbow, like whatever.

I mean, like get us the healthcare we need.

So I've had osteoporosis since my late 20s.

That is like the norm in so much of our community because of inadequate.

Hormone care because of surgeries that are forced onto our bodies and fallout from that.

There are so many other physical implications from those surgeries in the short term and long term.

And that protest that we led was

with regard to bad actor doctors who remain active in this city.

And I would say it is certainly discriminatory to cut children's genitalia without their consent and then use vibrators on them as part of the

of medical research.

So I think that this would be a big first step to pass this today,

but I just hope that it is viewed as a first step in a much longer investigatory process and process to pass multiple meaningful forms of

legislation to protect this community and to adequately meet our health care needs.

There's one other thing that I think is interesting in the discrimination conversation, which is, you know, even within the intersex community, there's definitely

a logic behind conversations that you have either with employers or doctors or providers.

And in that.

conversation, there's a disparity between quote unquote intact intersex people like myself and people who are then operated on.

And I think that's in and of itself, a further level of discrimination that hopefully will be discussed maybe once this is passed or in the future.

But that gives you a sort of

insider look into the kinds of imposter syndrome that we have even in our own community, right?

Where I was afraid to seek out additional support for so long, not just because I was told to keep it a secret and to keep it safe, but also to

you know, in my own view, you know, seeing different kinds of work,

that was being done online by Interact, I was like, oh, well, I haven't been surgically altered, so I'm not as, I don't belong with this group of people.

So I think redefining this, the term of gender to include intersex people, but then also talking about intersex people generally as, you know, both

medically altered, not medically altered, you know, hormone replaced, not hormone replaced.

There's definitely lots of different levels of treatment and of care that we've received or unfortunately haven't received.

Yeah, I think I'd just like to add that, you know, also as a person whose intersex status has not been hyper-medicalized, you know, really

my grandmother made an attempt when I was about 9 or 10 and experiencing a precocious puberty that was both virilizing and feminizing and tried to get me on medication and do a bunch of stuff.

And my mom was kind of like, nah, and I was very much like, meh.

So we didn't go that route.

And still at the same time, from about that age, 9 or 10, is how long I have been experiencing just people clocking me as different is how I think about it.

You know, my voice was almost as low at that age.

People thought I was my mother's sister.

And like I if I went into the women's bathroom, I would I would get looks already at that age.

So I think for me, you know, in a way that is actually kind of distinct from the way that the law protects us in our gender identity or expression, you know, like Leah spoke about.

You know, there may be times when I want to sport my mustache and it feels good to me.

And that's about my gender expression.

And there may be times that it's just on my face and I might get a look if I'm going into the women's restroom.

And that, you know, it's a fine distinction.

And I wouldn't argue that.

that the commission's protections, existing protections, don't cover that.

But, you know, as a civil rights lawyer myself and an intersex person, I kind of have to sit with the fact that they don't cover it because the law contemplated people like us.

And I think that, you know, like, again, as a civil rights lawyer, there's just this dignitary thing about it.

And I know that we're going to do this in New York because, again, like I said, we have the will.

I think, you know, I've experienced more gender policing in the city than anywhere I've been.

And it surprises me sometimes because New Yorkers are very, like, live and let live.

You know, I think truly, like for folks who come from out of town or all of us when we're visiting the city's businesses and public accommodations, I honestly think like that protection is going to be really meaningful,

especially because of the rise of this like moral panic around sex and gender that just doesn't.

Relate to anything about the actual diversity of human bodies and human presentation.

And as a dog whistle when we all should be focusing on climate change.

Oh my gosh.

So yeah, that's my two cents, I think.

What Alicia said about

healthcare disparities and this phenomenon where we're, you know, even LGBTQIA spaces will say that we're included.

And then it's kind of like, okay, so you said the word intersex, but now what?

I think of an experience I went to.

I spend a lot of time here in New York, but I live in Stanford about 45 minutes away.

And I went to visit our, and Stanford looks up to New York as, you know, as a role model for a lot of this legislation and stuff.

I went to our LGBTQIA health center that stated intersex care on their website.

And I was at a point where I was tired of looking at my medical situation and my hormone profile as something pathological, which is what I was told when I was nine years old.

You're doomed to a life of weight loss and chasing a femininity you're never going to have.

And you're always going to be hairy.

And that's it.

And so I went and I shared and I explained that I wanted a more holistic approach and I wanted an approach that was affirming.

And I just wanted to be what made my body feel the best, not what shoved it in a box.

And the nurse said to me, so here's the thing.

If you were just trans, I could do this.

I would know what was going on.

I could get you from point A to point B.

But you don't even know where your point A is.

And you don't.

even know where your point B is.

So I got nothing for you.

And this was where I was being sent for expertise.

And, you know, I'm so thankful for the team that I've built, many of whom are here in New York City.

But it was like, it was a huge jolt where I needed to find

where I needed to find solace and I needed to find acceptance.

You know, New York City is the first place that a makeup artist at Sephora

assumed that my beard was not an accident and assumed that it was who I was meant to be in front of my now 93-year-old grandmother, whom...

I will never tell her that she's who I learned how to pluck my beard with my fingers from.

But it's also the place where hopping on a train, I'm whispered and cursed at and called a tranny and an effing bearded lady and all of these things.

And I think of the impact of...

The explicit recognition of intersex as a protected category.

And it is that example.

It's so that nobody else, you know, works in a faith community and, you know, faith communities, they have their own ways of dealing with, of responding to legislation, but, you know, they can't look at the law of the land and say,

Well, even the regular law doesn't protect you, so why should we?

And it's about setting that example and setting that expectation that we are worth protection and opportunity.

Thank you.