Epstein questions panel on OATH delays and repeat-offense defaults

I recognize Councilmember Epstein for questions.

Thank you, Chair.

No.

Thanks for, like, hanging out and being here.

No, sure.

Happy to.

This is an interesting issue that we all got to solve together.

So it sounds like everyone agrees that oath is a problem, right?

Is that what we hear everyone saying?

Oath isn't notifying you quickly enough.

Oath is not prosecuting these cases quickly enough.

So you don't even...

Know to maintain information if you don't even know until six months later that there was a problem.

Is that what everyone's saying?

Yes, absolutely.

Yes.

So one, it sounds like figuring out a way to get notification to go out quickly.

Two is to get access to that video evidence quickly and to make a decision whether you just want to plead guilty and move on or not plead guilty because you think it's not a true violation.

What does Oath say when you flag these issues for them?

They don't.

We can't get a hold.

There's no numbers.

There's no answer.

There's a commissioner.

She's the former DCWP commissioner.

She now runs Oath.

She's, you know, a person who meets with people.

Can I make a– and you are a lawyer.

Can you– would you be willing to spend some time with one of our members as they adjudicate a hearing to Oath so you see exactly what that process, or I should say lack thereof, looks like?

Yeah, I'm happy to.

And I've actually appeared in front of Oath on behalf– you know, I've–

I was a legal services lawyer, so I had a very different job, but I would appear in front of Oath when I was a lawyer.

and tenants were trying to get landlords to do things, and Oath wasn't prosecuting those cases.

But I'm happy to follow up with one of your members to hear what's happening at Oath.

I think there's a lot of issues that we're grappling with that could be fixed at Oath's level that I think would help this problem.

Thank you.

And the other one, and I'm sorry to jump in, Zach, is that they're doubling, tripling, quadrupling the fines before we even know.

So when it's written, if there's no existing violation, it's written as a first violation unless there's an adjudication and a fine.

So it's only if it's being written again that they could have four or five that are pending, but you already have to have a violation to be considered as a repeat offender, right?

Yes.

So if they're writing five violations and there's no history of violations, they're all written as first violations.

You have a fleet.

You have one car.

They're in Wall Street.

They get a violation.

We never get it.

Same car as in Wall Street gets a second, gets a third violation.

We don't know.

We can't take action.

You're saying because once a fleet gets a violation, that's a repeat offender, you're saying?

Or the car gets a violation, it's a repeat offender?

The same car gets a repeat offense.

We never know about it.

But if there's a violation that you've been adjudicated already, that's only when you get repeat.

Go ahead.

Liz, can we just get that microphone down here for a second?

This information is not getting on the record.

Right, but sometimes what happens is you never receive the summons at all, but it's in the oath system.

So you are found guilty by non-appearance.

I got it.

And all of a sudden you're a repeat offender, even though you have never received the summons.

So there's two issues.

One is violations happening.

Two is not knowing what's happening.

And three is not getting these systems processed quickly enough.

I think there's some shared...

Ground there that we could all collectively, if the chair is open to it, to work on.

Because I think we want these, we want you to know, we want you to educate the drivers, we want this to move quickly, and we want to make sure that these don't happen and that businesses who are trying to do the right thing

Don't get repeat fines if this is not an appropriate idling violation.

Yeah, I really do appreciate that.

And the last point I do want to make is about 562A because it is a huge problem for the rental and leasing companies as well.

For them to have to go back years, try to track down who was operating that vehicle at the time.

You know, the companies who they partner with are the ones who keep the records.

It doesn't go, but the rental and leasing companies who don't operate the equipment don't have those records.

The transfer viability, as it does exist in most other enforcement programs in New York.

city is another important part of the due process.